Retired priest: ‘Hell’ was invented by the church to control people with fear

By Koba | 2 July 2015
Urban Intellectuals

This video is of an interview retired Episcopal bishop John Shelby Spong did with Keith Morrison of Dateline NBC back in August of 2006.

A partial transcript of the interview can be found beneath the video link:

Spong: I don’t think Hell exists. I happen to believe in life after death, but I don’t think it’s got a thing to do with reward and punishment. Religion is always in the control business, and that’s something people don’t really understand. It’s in a guilt-producing control business. And if you have Heaven as a place where you’re rewarded for you goodness, and Hell is a place where you’re punished for your evil, then you sort of have control of the population. And so they create this fiery place which has quite literally scared the Hell out of a lot of people, throughout Christian history. And it’s part of a control tactic.

Morrison: But wait a minute. You’re saying that Hell, the idea of a place under the earth or somewhere you’re tormented for an eternity – is actually an invention of the church?

Spong: I think the church fired its furnaces hotter than anybody else. But I think there’s a sense in most religious life of reward and punishment in some form. The church doesn’t like for people to grow up, because you can’t control grown-ups. That’s why we talk about being born again. When you’re born again, you’re still a child. People don’t need to be born again. They need to grow up. They need to accept their responsibility for themselves and the world.

Morrison: What do you make of the theology which is pretty quite prominent these days in America, which is there is one guaranteed way not to go to hell; and that is to accept Jesus as your personal savior.

Spong: Yeah, I grew up in that tradition. Every church I know claims that ‘we are the true church’ – that they have some ultimate authority, ‘We have the infallible Pope,’ ‘We have the Bible.’… The idea that the truth of God can be bound in any human system, by any human creed, by any human book, is almost beyond imagination for me.

I mean, God is not a Christian. God is not a Jew or a Muslim or a Hindi or Buddhist. All of those are human systems, which human beings have created to try to help us walk into the mystery of God. I honor my tradition. I walk through my tradition. But I don’t think my tradition defines God. It only points me to God.

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931 COMMENTS

  1. I believe this priest wants to establish his own church. This is the same position that Luther himself took that's why he left the church to establish his own- the Lutheran church. If this priest believes this way, then he also doesn't believe in the apparitions of the Blessed Mother which was investigated by the Church to be authentic. One of these is the Fatima Apparition in Portugal where the Blessed Mother appeared to Sister Lucia, Antonio and Jacinta where The Blessed Mother showed to the three children the vision of Hell. By the way lest this priest he goes the same path as Martin Luther did, He better learn what kind of life Luther lived after he left the church. Let others read the same also.

        • Proof is existential, as in cosmolocked in time and space. The realities spoken of here are ontological, which is not existentially cosmolocked. You probably won’t understand what I just wrote, and still ask for proof that you even existed once you’re out of here.

            • There is no proof of God yet you believe! And to believe that there is reward or punishment violates The very understanding of a God. Yea, like God so loved the world, which includes all people, yet has no problem sending one to hell? Grow up.

            • Cosmolocked. Cool made-up word. Could mean stuck in a bathroom with a Cosmo mag – do they still exist? Could mean trapped in an endless orbit somewhere in the cosmos inside a locked space capsule. Actually is used by a medical company as the name of orthopedic spinal implants to stabilize the spine. Might be the brother of Trech Molock who was a male Human from the planet of Corulag who served in the army of Palpatine’s Galactic Empire. Very creative invention but could use some explanation.

            • No you don’t. The existence of a physical object can fairly easily be proved. How do you prove the existence of something which is invisible and ineffable?

                  • Gravity is a theory, HOW IT WORKS, not that it exists. This is a mathematical fact. We may not understand all the nuances, but we certainly know it exists. We can see its effects on everything, it can be measured and understood, though the mechanism eludes us. So, we can prove it because of its effects. There is no way to measure a god’s effects, at least certainly not now.

                    • Gravity can be definitely proved mathematically. Many things are not only proved but new vistas are being opened in math yearly. I not a great mathematician but I know that it can prove a lot of things. Yet I really don’t think there is an algorithm for spiritual things. I struggle with many spiritual questions trying to come to a conclusion about them but there is no way I will ever be able to prove my spiritual conclusions when I reach them.

                  • This commentator does not know the formal definition of Theory, which is appropriate to use in this context. Instead, he uses the vernacular substitution of the word ‘theory’ where it is appropriate to use the word ‘hypothesis’. No, sorry, gravity is not a hypothesis, it is a theory supported by a preponderance of evidence and regarded as factually accurate model of the phenomenon.

                • As opposed to presenting his personal view point, the priest should have pointed to the fact that hell is not supported by the Bible, in fact the word “hell” is not found in the original text, it was used in the KING JAMES version, as the priest suggested by the clergy to control the laity. Death is the.end of life period, a recycling as it were, if mankind would focus on what it is truly in the bible about love as opposed to politics, riches consumerism, maybe our planet would not be dying a slow death, no people hungry or starving, no wars, religious or otherwise and no hate, Everything else is hubris.

          • Yes, we probably won’t understand it when you make up words and fail to provide any definition for them. Well done for spotting that.

          • Michael, it is your responsibility to see that you’re understood. You speaking in tongues without a translation for the understanding of mere mortals is truly laughable.

          • Here we go again. The same, old, tired, non-overlapping magisteria excuse for never being able to support a claim with evidence, ever. Spare us, we have heard this tripe before.

    • These, apparitions are some what suspicious, if they are real and yheybare from a divine being yhatbwants to send a message to humanity hen why do they always appear to only a verybsmall number of people? I am rrom portugal and I know that there are many mushrooms in yhe woods, many that will make you delirios…..these kids most probably touched some and put their hands in their mouths….
      just saying, If god wanted to send amessage to its people, I am sure thatbh3 can contact everybody simultwneously nd not need to resort appearingbyo 3 small children

          • That’s very true and thanks for putting that out. These “allegations” of an idol appearing to these 3 kids does not represent God or His messengers.

        • Re-reading his comments. … He’s from Portugal. …. be thankful it was even able to be understood. …I could read it just fine….Lol

        • Charlie stated he is from Portugal ! Well done Charlie I actually understood your English better than most that are English speaking born .. As for the people always corecting people and trying to mock is that really a nice trait?

          • “…. understood your English better than most …. WHO (not “THAT”) are BORN SPEAKING ENGLISH. …. ”

            And, “correcting” is spelled with two “R”s.

            Yeah. I like having that trait. ;)

        • english is not my language either, sorry if i make a mistake. But I agree totally with Charlie, and if you are so religious, what about forgiveness about some stupid mistakes? How many languages do you speak, by the way??

          • Our Lady of Fátima did not just appear to the 3 shepherds, she appeared 6 times in total, once every month, and always on the same day starting May 13 through to Oct 13, where by she appear to whomever was there to see, on the 5th apparition there were like 30 thousand people there, and the last time, there were over 70 thousand that witnessed it …. so believe what you will believe but I can tell you for certain that something big did happened there, especially considering that it was during a place in time that nobody knew how to make up something like this, there did not exist the technology!!

            • What rubbish. No such thing. I am religious but I don't believe in Catholic. Read the history of Catholicism . Why does apparition always appeared for the Catholic and not other Christian. What so special about Catholic. I do encourage you to research into the formation of catholic religion. Oh by the way , English is not my first language. I can speak four languages and multiple Chinese dialects but I cannot claim to be proficient in all of them. So forgive my mistakes.

            • Please cite the scriptures that read of anyone name "Lady of Fatima" from the inspired word of God. I've never seen anything such as these apparitions written about in the scriptures. We must remember in Revelations that nothing is to be added or taken away from these writings that were inspired by God! It must be pure and unaltered.

            • A DEAD WOMAN cannot appear to anyone. She is deader than dead as are all people when they die. She is not the mediator between God and man that is babylonian belief system and God states how much he hates that. I wish catholics would seek God out without the intervention of the priest.

            • Or it could be just mass psychosis. And please, technology has nothing to do with people making stuff up or being induced to have visions en mass. These where people who very much wanted to believe, who where primed to believe, and thus they "saw". Give me a photographic plate of this appertain and then we can talk. The word of a bunch of peasants wanting to "see" a miracle cuts no ice with me. Easy enough to whip that mass in to a frothy, ecstatic mass detached from reality.

        • It’s not his spelling as much as the tiny keys on smartphones. I recognize the “b” instead of a space and the “y” instead of a “t”. Look past it.

      • This makes no sense to it whatsoever? You simply do not touch a mushroom and get high off of it. Secondly people who have tried psychdelic mushrooms only describe it as a humbling experience that shows you what the rawest reality of the nature of existence . Read a book and inform yourself. I don’t believe in christainty based religions. Mushrooms do not make you delirious they don’t make you see things that aren’t there they only show you the reality of which the planet is in and I believe they are here to only showest a different state of consciousness and it is one that combines us and every thing in the universe with eachother when your tripping. Do not be so close minded and fear too look at the reality of what the world is. Iam no better than anyone neither are you and until the way every human will realize that then everyone will be stuck in a game of ego fueled ignorant bullshit that leads to anything but positivity and change for the world. Clearly religions and worshipping has not done so much good for the planet if you look at all the history and facts that go hand and hand with each other.

        • Have you ever used mushrooms? They are hallucinogens, they can definitely make you are things that aren't there. It just depends on the type of mushroom it is lol. I'll tell you, I've seen some crazy stuff trodden on mushrooms as a teenager lol

          • Dosage, mindset, location *all* have an impact on the type of trip you have. Head over to erowid and read some of the level 5 trip reports… many people eat a little bit of mushroom and have a nice groovy evening of it, sort of recreational. And some of us have eaten a lot more and experienced a very different sort of reality, sometimes hell, sometimes euphoric – both in the same trip. 2g at a concert vs 5g in the desert is a huge difference. That said – yes, I do agree that touching mushrooms (or even toads) isn’t going to send you tripping… I realize this is an old thread, but that is irrelevant to the memory of the internet :)

        • Maybe they were out catching frogs and started hallucinating after touching one of said frogs. Point being ,
          man made god and Satan to prey upon your guilt.

        • Yeah, that part about mushrooms? Oh, you can see lots of shit that isn’t there. Really, this is not a debate. You can go straight lord of the Rings on mushrooms. I’m talking, like, who ooo boy, vision quest spirit animal thing, ride it out, ride it out…just so you know. You’ll meet god. In fact I often suggest that christians should have to dose on lsd or mushrooms. You think they’re annoying now, wait until they get to hang out with him. Church will never be the same. Here comes the new reformation!!!

      • charlie, for God Sakes ( no pun intended) learn to spell. It makes you look ignorant!! And by the way, she DID appear to 3 children!!

    • Using the word 'lest' doesn't change the fact that when people "see' stuff, they are batsh!t crazy, not holy figures.

      Let me just dumb it down for you: There is no God in the sense of an organized religion. We are no better, or important, than any other living organism on this planet. We are all equal.

      You will die. Your body will turn back into molecules and you will be reformed into something else.

      If you believe the Bible, you are as disillusion as the Ancient Egyptians who believe the sun was a God. Except they are more accurate as the sun gives life to all things on the planet. Jesus, does not.

        • “those people choosen as saints there bodies do not rot, perfectly preserved for centuries.” – what the hell are you babbling about?

        • They had preserving arrangements all ready made, ready to do at time of death so that their bodies would last the times…. Some of the elite are on to this and there's been talk of celebrities, Royals, elitists and hi people in religion wanting to do the exact same.
          A bit like stuffing a dead dog
          Not sure I'd want my body preserved, just simply burnt, I wouldn't want some nutcase in the year 2500 attempting to bring me back or being buried in the ground to get eaten by insects only to be dug up later on because they don't stay buried for eternity!!

          • in the tight conditions bodies can self preserve, fat is turned into a substance called adipocere sometimes called corpse wax. It usually forms when there is sufficient moisture and no oxygen present.

      • Many understand that the idea of the Sun being literally a god is simply that the deity has governorship over the Sun. It isn’t that the Sun is literally a god, but is a focal point for Him.

        • Truth. Literal thinkers are difficult. You have to be a bit open minded to acknowledge that there is more than one possibility, and what you choose to believe may only BE a possibility.

      • Amen! (Sorry, I couldn’t resist).
        SDG, you are 100% correct.

        Having been raised Catholic I refused to drink the Kool-Aid.

      • It’s actually a tad more wonderful than that. You don’t have to “die” to “turn back into molecules. You are already just molecules. But here’s what gives me a transcendent feeling: our skin is no barrier to our being a continuous part of the world. Light passes through our skin and, in part, our bodies turn it into Vitamin D (which we later pee or poop away); we only attend to that which either enters our eyes or warms our skin. Air, too, penetrates our skin (most healthfully through the alveoli of our lungs; we later breath or excrete it, too. Water may be drunk, but we also absorb some through our skin, again, to be later excreted. Sound waves jostle the molecules and organs of our bodies, but we only attend to that part that enters our ears. Again: we seem to think that our skin separates us from the natural world and everything “other;” it really does no such thing. The tides and trembles of the world wash through us and around us as intimately and intensely as any gush of hormones.

    • The church can’t investigate it’s own claims, they’ll just come back and tell you what they want. Like the police departments that investigate themselves

    • I'm agreeing with Perry. You can form your own opinions and make your own judgments. I suppose that is what it's all about. But in the end you WILL see and know the truth. The apparition's in Fatima happened. Our Lady warned us. Heaven is real. And you very well should know, HELL IS REAL. No one wants to believe that. Life is easier believing that. But some things are real whether you choose to believe it or not.

      • Question what you have been taught we simply believe what we have been told when it comes to religion if you research you will see what he saying has truth to it. Don’t follow blindly anything research and don’t be afraid of the real truth. ” The truth shall set you free.”

        • Melodye Martin, you are absolutely right!! People believe what they are told about the most important thing in their lives. Therein lies the danger!!! Examine the scriptures, and you will see what Christendom doesn’t want you to know.

        • Absolutely right on Melodye Martin!! Search for yourself, and always pray for understanding. We have listened to "polluted Christianity" too long! DO NOT fear that we have an angry, cruel god that would subject anyone to eternal burning with no relief. Remember, that most of Revelations is symbolic, and the "Church" has preached fear for control.

      • Hell and Lucifer weren't even a part of the Bible until the crusades. It was later on placed in the bible when people realized they weren't converting or taking control of enough pagans. And when that still wasn't as effective as planned they burned, maimed, and killed pagans to the tune of 6 million in the name of Christianity. Religion is definitely the business you want to be in if you wanted to take over lands back in the day or make money today. Nice plot to take over the earth, huh? Well played. The church will NEVER hurt for money, although the supposed savior IN THE BIBLE spread his word as a commoner and without a big shiny church. It's a sham. Is there a God? Who knows. As far as prayer working and people seeing signs, that happens in EVERY religion. Does that mean they are all 'the true religion'?

      • Tell me this from your heart, can you really love a god who would subject people to the most horrible pain…burning with no relief throughout eternity? It is FEAR, yes, but can you honestly say you would love a god such as that? Hell or Sheol is the common grave of man. The wages of sin is death….open your Bible and read the scriptures in Revelations that reads: "Death and hell will be thrown into the lake of fire." What does fire do to anything tangible if it burns long enough? It disintegrates, so there will be no more death. That is why Jesus died because he gave himself as a ransom sacrifice, so that all of us who believe(and that means doing our utmost to be more Christ like) will have everlasting life. Consider the scriptures: "The meek shall inherit the earth and reside upon it forever." Also, the night before Jesus died, when he was praying to his father in Heaven, he said: "Thy Kingdom come, thy will be done on EARTH as it is in Heaven." We can see that God's will is not being done right now, but at the appointed time, God's original plan will come about……that has not changed. Ones who believe in him(sincerely honoring) shall not perish, but have EVERLASTING LIFE. That is written.

    • I am Portuguese my self… And a couple of months ago a priest came forward saying that the holy Maria that sister Lucia and her 2 brothers saw is fake

      It is also believed that they murdered the REAL lucia and the other brothers so theyd make up the story of having seen the Holy Mother Maria

    • If you study history, this priest is correct. The Catholic church wanted to control the roving tribes throughout Europe during the dark ages. The Dark Ages were a crazy, chaotic time with a lack of cohesive governmental structures. People were illiterate, they were just trying to protect themselves from roving bands or Goths, Vandals, ect. The structure and stability they finally found was in the Catholic church. They were dependent on them and they also believed what they were told. If you look at the iconography it is all about good/evil, heaven/hell, but punitive. This helped to instill fear which was a tool for control. Almost all art until the Renaissance was religious… The Catholic church created the concept of hell to control the masses. Study your history folks–

    • Your statement is exactly what this priest is saying. According to this priest, you’re buying into what your church has taught you. From my understanding, I think he’s saying “Think for yourself”. Lets be honest, none of us were there to actually see what we’ve been taught in church. We are going on passed on story, lessons and faith. I personally do believe that there is life after death and for the most part, it is as we have been taught. However, I do not believe that Hell is all Hell fire and brimstone. How could that be Hell for a pyromaniac who loves fire? Wouldn’t that be Heaven for him ? I think Heaven isn’t the same for everyone, the same Hell can’t possibly be the same for everyone. Hell could be as simple as not feeling God’s grace anymore. I also believe that it’s not a one time test of faith either. I believe that even after you’ve gone to Heaven or Hell, you could fall or be saved, depending on your choices. Think of it as the same as when you discipline you’re children. Even after their punished, we still love them and give them a chance to do the right thing. I can buy into what the priest is saying when he says “Think for yourself”. I already have, I believe that there is a Heaven, I believe there is a Hell. I have personally seen things that I can’t explain. However, my faith tells me that there is a whole different world after our body dies here. One thing is certain…we will all find out.

      • Very well said. No one knows but I do dislike people who feel we are stupid for our beliefs. We will all find out soon enough and there is no harm in living a good moral life not because we fear God’s judgement but because we love God and live a good life to praise our our
        Lord!!!!!

      • >One thing is certain…we will all find out.
        I am certain that no one will find out.
        “Finding out” is a cognitive process that requires a working brain.
        And dead people don’t have working brains.
        If you really want to, you may entertain the possibility of an “after life,” but it certainly won’t be related to “life” in the received biological sense, because that sort of life depends on all the chemistry and electricity that gets interrupted and ultimately ceases with death. And the cessation of brain function is the very definition of death in modern medicine. If there is some way to salvage an “after” in light of this basic common sense, it will have no continuity with our living experience.

        • It is the spirit of man that never dies. There is a mind of the spirit that will be active. After your fleshly body and brain is returned to dust from which you were created.

        • Yes it will not have any continuance of our “living” as you have so eloquently elaborated and I do indeed have a very scientific mind and agree with what you have stated. Although I also have a spiritual, soulful belief and though our bodies and physical beings do not continue and cease to be upon death, our souls go onto greater and bigger things. In the scheme of things our mere time here in one human life is nothing at all, our souls must be destined for more out in the universe somewhere once they leave our body. Whether it be reincarnation, in heaven, whatever you as an individual believe. But I strongly feel a deep and intuitive understanding that our souls go on and our human bodies are mere temporary shells.

        • I believe you and this is the truth. After death we lose our identity and have no continuity with our living experience. So there’s no soul that leaves the body. Our Body is made of 5 Elements, it is burnt or buried hence it submerges into the earth. That’s all.

      • Brian: You don’t NEED to follow ME, You don’t NEED to follow ANYBODY! You’ve got to think for your selves! You’re ALL individuals!
        The Crowd: Yes! We’re all individuals!
        Brian: You’re all different!
        The Crowd: Yes, we ARE all different!
        Man in crowd: I’m not…
        The Crowd: Sch!

      • In my view – my working hypothesis – both heaven and hell are illusory, or rather simply what happens when our souls go back to God. At that point we see clearly and without any filters what we have done, and who we were when we had the illusion of having an individual identity. For some that is heaven, for others, hell.

        • Presuming there is a “God” to whom or what our presumed “souls” presumably “go back to.” Unlikely we see clearly without eyes or consciousness, filters or no filters. As for the “illusion” of an individual identity — I suppose you mean, as opposed to being integrated with the universe — I quite like mine. My POV is a special gift from the universe, its way of experiencing things differently, from many perspectives. Heaven or hell are irrelevant concepts.

      • Yes, yes. I am with you 100% on this one. I am sure we will all be surprised at exactly what the other side is like when our time comes. Our limited human minds do not have the capacity to comprehend what it is really like, nor do I believe we are supposed to remember ‘heaven’ either. ‘ Hell’ l believe, will be a state of consciousness that will be encountered by those who have not lived with love and kindness. They will be given the opportunity for their soul to heal and make a mends, but will have to work harder at this than those who have lived a more honourable life.

    • Perry, this man has been a Bishop of the Episcopalian Church for years…he is elderly now….he has always been an intellectual…a forward thinker….I guarantee you he does not want to start a church of his own…lol…I have been reading his writings for years….he is an intellectual…he will not buy any of the hokus pokus other churches try to sell you….

      • Hocus pocus–a corruption of HOC EST CORPUS MEUM which is what the priest says when he gives communion. It means “This is my body.”

    • Luther never wanted to start a separate church. He wanted to reform the existing church. Other people took his theses (complaints) and used them (against his wishes) to further their own agenda. But because he was a respected and influential man, they attached his name to the movement.

      • Truth Martin Luther wanted to refirm the Catholic church because they were doing wrong. Making money off people in the name of the Lord which many faith do today.

    • You and me know the pastor is telling the truth. religion is full of control and they don’t have a answer to anything that guilt. The truth about religion is not longer even allowed to be talked about. only telling people lies to control them

      • I agree with the Priest. The Bible is a story book. Written to keep people in line. Yes I grew up in a home where my mother was a Christian and my father a Pagan and yes we went to church every Sunday. At the age of 13 I chose to follow in my fathers footsteps. I have spent most of my life reading each and every Holy Book from each religion and belief. Certain books of Moses was left out of the Bible. The writings of Barabbas was edited and so much more. I respect everyone’s beliefs. But the world we live in is “Hell”. There is no Hell after death. Jesus was a Prophet just like Mohammed and the others. They were not the sons of God. The Bible writings contain stories of Magic yet people call it Miracles. It contains sections of the Dark arts…. Raising the dead. I could carry on but I suggest that people dig deeper when studying religion. You will be surprised at what you will find. Oh and every time the Bible has been written the word Hell has been used less and less. Research it for yourselves. Go way way back and see what I am talking about. Blessed Be

        • This is very interesting! My mother followed the Anglican religion & my father not religious at all. He believes in scientific facts. I tend to follow his lead. When my mother died I could not get my head around her going to heaven/hell – where-ever. The way I see it – we came from nothing to start with, so go to nothing. But your comments about Hell being here makes me think about this topic in a new light.

    • Perhaps these confirmations of the church are simply tentacles of the control mechanism? If you are so close minded as to warn a priest of his personal revelations, I would say you are stuck in a fear based belief system. If you feel as if you are not permitted to question authority, you are, to put it bluntly, an idiot.

    • You are drugs buddy. No one has ever proven the legitimacy of the Fatima Apparition in Portugal. Hell was a creation of the medieval Roman Catholic Church. Are you on crack or meth?

    • Please the true Mary, mother of Jesus Christ is dead and awaiting resurrection. why don’t you let her be.
      Stop promoting unbiblical doctrines

    • Um…Hell is an invention…as is every other aspect of all religions….as irrefutably proven a thousand times over…this is not news…

    • Lucifer is a made up issue as well. That word is actually an adjective in the original text. The churches decided to change t into a proper noun. It is just a description of the actual King to whom the verse refers. People REALLY need to do some serious research and quit being hoodwinked by the peacocks in the pulpits – I know, I was one of them for years until I decided to be serious and dig for the truth!

    • I just need to say one thing here there are huge rumours saying that the vatican itself that does most of the investigating is actually controlled by a pagan angel or possibly the devil himself. I don’t know how true that is. but I do know this one thing I think that Hell does exist. It is the absence of God but I think it is very hard to go to hell as an all loving God would never want you down there. I think the only way you can go to hell is by specifically saying that you want to. If you want to go to heaven and you try to love and be a good person to others I think you have nothing to worry about. For as long as you know love you know God. And let me say something here the love I have experienced is amazing I would never wish anybody to not be loved and I could never imagine sending not only any human (including Hitler and all the bad ones) but any living thing to a place where there is no love it is inhumane and unGodly.

    • "he also doesn't believe in the apparitions of the Blessed Mother which was investigated by the Church to be authentic", sop, let me get this straight, the church, the seat of which is in the city that used to throw Christians to the lions and is now the richest nation state in the world, investigated it's own claims, and found them to be "authentic', AND YOU BELIEVE IT? Wow, you are the exact kind of dolt that the church invented itself to control. Congratulations.

    • Don't believe with the church investigated, the richest corporation on the planet and owned more land and real estate on this planet. The verona treaty shows the Vatican put the whole world in a trust that they control, god didn't give them that instruction the human greed for control , power, wealth did not GOD! Bullshit! Church and state are one and always will be control. When you have your own country, state , bank, etc to much control for speaking the word of God and has the never to take 10 to 20% from the poorest people in the planet that are seeking help and guidance. 1

    • You’ve been duped. Those stories were later recanted and nothing those girls from Fatima witnessed were of any interest to anyone outside of the church. It is merely propaganda to help carry the myths forward into the 20th century. Too bad we’re now into the 21st century and still hold onto these ancient, savage writings.

    • If there is a God how come the priest and the holy men molested young people in their care would God allow such a thing the Bible was written by man there are 4200 religions its all b******* people as George Carlin says its all b******* the priest says it’s all about control I’ve always felt it was about control god loves you but if you don’t behave you’re going to hell and you will burn in eternity if you people believe that god bless you I’ll take being an atheist anytime saves me a lot of money

    • Luther believed no such thing and didn’t leave to start his own church. He challenged the church for holding control over the people. The church allowed nobody but the ordained to possess the Word of God which I’m sure he would frown upon. I suggest you read who Lutheran was, what he did and why.

    • I think you can disagree with the teachings of the church and still not want to start your own. Luther didnt stray all that far from the mother church….. those of us “step=children” catholics (aka Lutherans) still had hellfire and brimstone in the mix

    • God does not exist except in our illusions… God is an invention of thought to help fight the absolutely overwhelming terror of our own death….

    • Dear friend, Martin Luther did not leave the church, he was excommunicated for try to reform the crime within the church. He warned against starting a movement in his name and stating that he was not worthy. The Catholic church has made the changes he named in thesis and today he would be Catholic. In his time priests were not educated but political appointments. Forgiveness was for a price and one could pay for a particular sin in advance. Most but not all corruption has been removed from the church.

    • Blessed what? Can’t you hear you’re own voice? It was investigated by the church and deemed authentic?!? Well duh! You can’t ask the governing body if it’s own story is authentic! I see what you mean. This priest clearly spits in the face of traditional Catholicism. But I do believe that is the point. Nothing is above being challenged. Besides I think he makes a lot of sense. Catholicism is absolute and complete bullshit, and so is all Abrahamic religion.

    • We have the actual historical life of the Galilean rabbi known as Jesus of Nazareth. And after his death, we see the theological and dogmatic statements that were placed into his mouth by the later gospel writers, from Paul in the 50s to John around the year 100 AD (C.E.).

      It seems to me you are still unable or unwilling to discard the reward/punishment scheme of the established church.

      Let’s remember Jesus’ own words:

      “The Father makes his sun to shine on both the evil AND the good and sends his rain to fall on the righteous and the unrighteous alike.”
      “Why do you call ME good? Only GOD is good!”
      “Pray to the Father in secret.”
      “Do not judge.”
      “Look to the log in your own eye before you point out the speck of sawdust in your neighbor’s.”

    • I believe that if your priest asked you to drop trow so he could investigate your body for demons, you’d let him fist you until you turned green and dated a pig. You might as well be a Muppet if you believe in anything the church has investigated, because someone’s either got a hand up your ass or pulling your strings.

    • A pope in the 3rd century invented Hell. The Jews don’t believe in Hell or the Devil. But, if you believe this then it is your thing.. I have seen the Virgin Mary on two occasions and she has nothing to do with Satan or Hell. The Virgin Mary showed them the children the Christ Fires of the cleansing indestructible flames of Jesus Christ. It is Jesus who cleans the sins of mankind. This is what the Ancient teachers. Jesus is the Lord of this world and he carries the flames to clean the sins of mankind. tHE Catholics know this and that is the reason for candles and hell.

    • If the church invented Heaven and Hell, then of course it would have authenticated the apparitions of the Blessed Mother. Whether he is right or wrong his logic holds.

    • You really trust the church to authenticate these findings? It’s like asking the student to grade his own tests. You believe the story of three children that was told 500 years ago as the word of god? Today, you find these people everywhere, mostly in the insane asylums.

    • Yeah, because the church investigating apparitions is about as believable as cops investigating themselves. And what part of "retired priest" makes you think he is going to start his own church?

    • Luther left because (big surprise) the church was ripping people off and capitalizing on the business of forgiveness. Judaism has the same issue in temples before Jesus shed some light on their corruption. The reality is the church isn’t God. They exist as a structure that provides guidance to living a life the way their version of God intended. They’re still just people and they’re still full of shit like the rest of us. Many people of many religions are very GOOD people. And they aren’t clergy or saints. Just people. The Church is not immune to corruption. And to turn a blind eye is just as sinful.

    • What he says is what I have believed for many years. Hell is a control tactic made up by the Church used to scare people into following what they consider the “right path”. I don’t understand why you would assume he said this stuff so he could start his own church. Just a little confused…

    • Всеки дърпа баницата към себе си. Днес има все повече и повече желаещи да изопачават Божието Слово, според техните желания и намерения. Не искат да приемат Истината, защото не им харесва, или не им е удобна, а още пи-малко да я познават и да се променят според нея. Но нито Бог, нито Словото Му е за подиграване. Който върви според упоритостта на сърцето си, ще погине.Бог е същият вчера, днес и завинаги, и Той изпълнява Словото Си. Тесен е пътят на спасението и пространен е пътят на погублението. Който повярва в Господа Исуса Христа, ще се спаси!

    • For thee commenters to focus on apperitions ‘flames’ another comment without talking about this idea that there is or is not a hell. The parable of the man in hell asking for water is only one of many rejoiners that could be used. The only correction I would make on your comment is that Luther challenged Church doctrine, did not leave the Church until he was booted out and did not ‘start’ hi own church, his followers did.

    • Nonsense.
      Those apparitions are NOT from Heaven.
      Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father but by me.”
      Luther simply blew’the lid off of rome’s money making indulgences, penance, and paying for masses.

    • Of course he does not believe in Fatima – he is an Episcopalian (i.e. Anglican) bishop! Though, when a bishop makes a claim like this he is actually a heretic and an apostate, therefore no longer a Christian. How unfortunate for him he is not right as far as hell and the justice of God is concerned!

    • According to the church all the saints and would be saints performed supernatural miracles, including Mother Teresa and just about every pope. And they are certified by the church. If you believe that then you are very gullible. Mother Teresa deserves to be a saint, and she performed very human miracles, but she did not do anything supernatural. It is a fraud, one of many by the church.

    • Are you for real? An apparition? “the blessed mother” the church found it to be authentic !
      You must believe in little green men from outer space as well then.

    • I have been brought up in the Lutheran Church. This is what the Lutheran church has taught me, that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. There is nothing I can do by my good works that I will be saved. I am a sinner, and by truly repenting my sins I will be forgiven. We all need to pick our Bible each day and read the Holy Scriptures.

    • "The church" has a vested interest in finding apparitions and miracles "authentic". Hallucinations and hoaxes are much more likely. Children are very good at creating hoaxes.

    • Martin Luther never wanted to start his own branch of christianity. He just called out all the corruption and bs within the church at the time and millions of people agreed with him causing the protestant reformation.

    • Wow to see how ignorant you are shows your one dimensional minded person with no concept of thinking outside the box like he did. Your church was more evil then man and woman walking the street. All I can say is its people like you who are wrong with the world and why we can’t move forward.

    • perry, Can you cite the scriptures in the Holy Bible where any of this transpired? Anything added or taken away from the inspired word of God is not to be accepted. That is scriptural in Revelations.

    • I imagine the burning fires of Hell described by the children of Fatima to be not a distant place for evil people, but rather, a nuclear explosion so horrendous that the event itself and its ugly aftermath could only be described as Hell. Those unfortunate enough to remain alive experience untold suffering of body as well as soul searing emotional pain. Sounds like hell to me….living hell. I have no problem believing the children saw what they said they saw. At the time, it could not be described in today’s terms. It was a prophetic vision. Remember, a prophet’s job is to warn people of what will happen if they don’t change their current thoughts and actions. A prophet is not a fortune teller, a prophet sees a vision based on what is happening now. If the people turn around and change their thoughts and actions, the prophecy does not come to pass. Climate change has lots of prophets and lots of believers. Even so, look how long it appears to be taking to change thinking enough to turn things around.

    • You can not make a claim that because he says there is no hell that he then does not believe the occurrence of miracles or these apparitions. They are two separate issues. But to understand that more fully you would have to understand the nature of consciousness. There are people of all different faiths around the world who have experienced the appearance of spirits and holy apparitions and other various forms of miracles. In fact there are many people who have experienced life after death scenarios that have testified to the fact that what they saw or experience made them less religious and more spiritual and that the whole biblical view had shifted. If you want to see 'proof' you can get much in the way of anecdotal evidence that becomes statistically valid when you take into account the sheer volume of occurrences in every culture and every religion around the world. The experience of the individual did not vary by the chosen faith but by the conscious beliefs of the individuals. Now in the same note many people who have no particular faith have also experienced miracles. There are many assumptions wrapped up in this… 1) the assumption that miracles must be approved by the church to be true 2) that if hell doesnt exist that the other side of things must not either 3) that every vision is true that people receive
      Instead of making assumptions which fill your cup with what you presume to know how about you ask questions and make room for more? If what the priest says is true then of course the church would promote it as true and valid because it backs up what they are promoting. I would also start to look for other miracles that occur in other religious contexts outside of Christianity. I can tell you that they do exist. If you find even one then it puts a wrench in the idea that the other is the only truth. It clearly shows a wider truth exists. If you want further proof that the idea of hell is made up then you can also look into Biblical history and note that there was no word for hell during the time of Jesus and he was actually referring to a physical place. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/formerlyfundie/what-

    • So his quest to take the bible out of the church’s hands and into the hands of men was just a byproduct of him wanting his own church. No wonder the world is so screwed cause everyone has an opinion of what is on other people hearts….in life you can only deal for yourself and not even your children or spouses cause you never know what they are thinking all the time. You don’t know what the true intention is unless you’re God or a mind reader and even then I’m skeptical cause religion is the bs that’s control the population and it gets revised every 50 years….before kings would write their own bible but we just got stuck with the 16th version that had been revised 10 times….guess that must be the work of God….NOTHERWISE

    • People already know Jesus in fake and where the picture came from so I don't get the point why keep lying. And if he wants to get his own church so be it don't get upset cause he told the truth

    • I do not understand the need to create a belief system and then fight for it

      Once one understands to 'just be' we do not need to believe. We can " TRUST " through one's own experience.
      A system is created through words which is always inadequate to express one's own experiences.
      Hence the misunderstanding and the fights.
      So just learn to be!:

    • Perry… You have ALLOWED yourself to be conned!

      The meaning of "Science" is very simply the study of facts. "Faith" is the opposite of facts. Although I do personally believe in "a" God, it can't possibly make sense to have a god-story (heaven, hell, visions of said heaven and hell) that are so contrived as to make simpler, more logistically likely possibilities, unacceptable to you.

      I know why you do believe it though. You cannot possibly allow all your beliefs, your whole life, to be admitted as lies. It is simply too humiliating. So you stick to ridiculous beliefs that allow you to stay in a social clique of like minds. That, is a very comfortable and yet elitist place to be.

    • “Investigated by the church to be authentic…” That’s like saying e cigarettes are bad because the tobacco company says they are.

    • You should look up Spong, somewhat controversial, but very intelligent, very educated, and very published. He has no interest in starting a church, and neither did Luther. He just disagreed with a lot that the Catholic Church was doing.

    • “This priest” is an ordained Bishop of the Episcopal Church and has been in service to the Episcopal Church for his entire adult life. That isn’t some claim to fame, but rather to point out that he isn’t starting any church at all. Your ignorance is appalling.

    • You said yourself…those apparitions were investigated BY THE CHURCH. Of course the church found them to be authentic. The Catholic church has raped society since its inception. People are not waking up to that, they have woken. It is only a matter of time before all organized religion is forgotten.

    • He’s a long-retired, quite successful Episcopal church bishop. When he says he follows his tradition, he is speaking of the Episcopal church tradition. He never wanted to start his own church. Just has an open mind and a depth of understanding and no fear of expressing it. Read what he said again. You can’t define the undefinable. God won’t be limited by your belief system or anyone else’s.

    • Perry. You don't find it at all disturbing that a "Blessed Mother" would terrify three children like this? Seems more like child abuse.

    • Yes, these apparitions of Mary are true to form; for the reason that, they are projected out from the psyche as a true spiritual force; for the reason that, that individual does not have the capabilities of God's message in any other way; thus, such a projection is gifted upon that individual.

      Notice that no one else sees the vision demonstrating that it is projected out from the individual. Those rare occasion when a multitude of people experience the same vision is; for the reason that, that is a product of mass psychosis similar to a mob's mentality. It you have not been in a demonstration then you would not know what I am talking about; however, if you were in a demonstration with hundred if not thousands of people then you most likely got caught up in the mob mentality and you will remember you were incapable of stepping out of that mob mentality psychosis.

      When tens of thousands of people see the sun falling to earth – it is a spiritual vision but the populace is not conditioned psychologically over a long period of time prior to that moment into putting that vision instantaneously into an explanatory apparition of Mary or another spiritual genre of thought that would make sense to the world.

    • If you think or believe that religion is God made, then you are full of shit!
      There’s merit to what he is saying & I have no reason to subscribed to your notion that because he (the priest), has his view of “hell” that it makes him a disbeliever of other facet(s) relating to his faith.
      Your parochial mindset won’t take you far because you have been brain wash to think only one way.

    • I haven't been to Heaven or Hell lately, neither have most of us, so I cannot say for sure. All I know, is that I asked God to reveal his full, true, unlimited by human ideas "self" to me a few years ago, and all the things I began to discover… they can be summed up in the last paragraph of this article, exactly. That is the truth about God, as well as we can place it with human words anyway.

    • There is a new sandwich at McDonalds recognizing a sighting of Mother Mary by a 300 lb Aborigines, called the BVM on rye(the BlessedVirginMary). If you order the combo with the super sized fries, automatically get a 11 months 29 day indulgence good in purgatory, hell or the airport check-in line.

    • Perry, I don’t see any rationality in your comment, as others also note here. I see threats or denial. My spiritual teacher, Anandamurti, says: “There is no seperate existence of heaven or hell. Rather the result of your good deeds puts your mind in a state of heaven and the result of your bad deeds puts your mind in a state of hell.” That I think, is more tangible than apparitions, which may be real in the mind of the beholder, but are not otherwise provable.

    • You state that you believe in the apparitions of the Blesed Mother which was “investigated by the Church to be authentic”.

      That claim speaks for itself. A liar investigates hi own lie and declares it NOT to be a lie????

      Try again!!!

    • The Apostles gave testimony recorded in God’s word the Bible, that holy scripture is the source of truth. Jesus himself said the same thing in a prayer to his Heavenly Father, Jehovah: “Your word is truth” (John 17:17). Anyone can report seeing a vision, and many can find collaborators, even if the event is fiction. Yet, the Bible never says God would torture people for eternity, there would be no sound reason to do so. In fact, it says just the opposite: “God is love” (James 4:8). No loving God would perpetrate that kind of torture, the most evil of men wouldn’t even do that.

    • I am sorry but having the Church investigating the miracles is like some lawyer on a case with a conflict of interest. I was raised a Catholic but realized what the Church has done a long time ago.

    • Martin Luther left the Catholic Church because of it’s corruption, with “Indulgences” being sold by a Pope to fund his Cathedral. These “indulgences” were just pieces of paper that were supposed to forgive all sins. past, current, & future. Luther was also disgusted with the worship of statues & bones that was happening in Catholic churches, as well as the corrupt & sinful Popes with straight & gay lovers, & illegitimate children. Read the history of your own Church, including the Popes who ordered the Crusades, & the Spanish Inquisition. Then look into a mirror & try telling yourself that Catholicism is the true faith…….

    • “Was investigated by the church to be authentic” you can’t make up the story and then be the same people to ‘investigate’ it’s authenticity. That’s like trying to sell someone a counterfeit peice of art and telling them you investigated it’s authenticty, and yep it’s the real deal!!!! If you really believe that the church isn’t going to make shit up to ‘prove’ itself, then I’ve got an authentic rough draft of the Mona lisa is like to sell you… Don’t worry it’s real, im an avid art collector and I can tell it’s the real deal…

    • Just a caveat. Bishop Spong is not a Catholic. He is an Episcopalian by creed. He has no desire to establish his own church, but to release people from the bondage that their churches still seek to ensconce them in. After reading his books, I would suggest that he would more likely view himself as beyond Church, and beyond Christianity in the legalistic sense. So no, he does not believe in the apparitions of Mary. And on the point of authenticity, the Church did not find them to be authentic, but found them to be worthy of veneration. No Catholic is required to believe in any apparition or other personal revelation.

    • Catholics are not bound to believe Church-approved private revelations. The Catechism explains the role of private revelation …………………….

    • You clearly suffer from mental illness .. Your reply is evident! did you know god is a lunatic and was crazy as the bible describes him.. hahah he killed and cause nothing but strife through out the whole damned book.. and the devil (Satan). Did you know .. never killed ONE person in the whole bible .. hahaha! Ponder that and the ones that follow that book which causes mental dis~EASE!! UH!
      EmpreZion said it!

    • Ha, “Investigated by the Church” yes, of course anyone who believes other then what the church shoves down their throat must be the devil. I mean the church proved it right? Back in the day The priest preached what God said and wanted or was it the King? Either way same thing, right?

    • I agree. Many people have had visions of hell and i believe it to be 100% real. Evil is evident all over the world. There is no doubt that evil exists and evil spirits etc. The fact that this man who calls himself a some kind of priest doesn’t believe in evil and hell is very frightening. God help him he needs direction.

      • You are twisting Spong's words.
        He does believe in the existence of right and wrong, just not a firey eternal Hell.
        Christians and Muslims are both such incredible dogmatic chauvinists; anyone who doesn't believe exactly as they do supposedly "deserves" horrible punishment- FOREVER!!
        COME ON, GET OFF IT and grow up.

    • Bishop Spong is 84 yrs/old. Just a bit long in the tooth to be starting his own church. When you say investigated by the Church, which Church? A church who has a vested interested in those apparitions being true? You also talk about the kind of life Luther led after being ousted from ‘The Church’, so one should formulate one’s beliefs around fear of retribution from a temporal organization? I can hear it now, “That’s a nice soul you got there, hate to see anything happen to it, if you get my drift”. Sounds more like a protection racket than a religion. Also, Bishop Spong is an Anglican, not a Roman Catholic. He doesn’t answer to ‘the Church’ or the Pope.

    • Haha hahaha. Apparitions investigated by the church to be authentic. What a bunch of shit. The church is the one spreading the lies. What a joke.

    • Martin Luther was not trying to establish a new church. the catholic church of the 1500s had gotten corrupt. Selling forgiveness of sin through “indulgences”. In his view forgiveness of sins was a free gift of God by his grace. Where were other things he disagreed with but that was the main point. His goal was to reform the Catholic church back to the teachings of the bible. But the powers in charge Pope Leo X was in effect running things and in 1520 excommunicated martin Luther. But in time the Catholic Church stopped selling indulgences. In reality a new church did form because the Catholic Church refused the reforms and those who agreed with Martin Luthers ideas either left the church or were excommunicated as well. It was the start of the reformation era. In time Luther’s supporters started a new church but Martin Luther did not have that as a goal. it was to simply reform the Catholic Church. And Yes I am a confirmed Lutheran and a Confirmed Catholic so I have heard both sides in both sides history. I grew up a Lutheran. became a catholic during my first marriage. After my divorce I went back to the Lutheran church of my childhood. My second wife now is a Catholic as well. So bottom line I have gone to both churches during my current marriage. In fact I went to communion this morning at my Lutheran church and the last time I did before that was a Catholic mass. So in reality the Lutheran and Catholic churches are far more closer then they are separate. They could merge and almost no one could tell except for a few words in the service here and there. But it will never happen as a merger would require one or the other to give up their name and neither would be willing to do that. lol

    • So Perry, I wonder what is going to happen to all your disgusting Pedophile Pimps, you know, the scum who protected the pedophile priests, brothers, nuns and sisters, moving them from parish to parish, across state lines and international borders, to avoid detection, arrest and prosecution and by your pedophile pimps actions, more children were brutally raped.

      Now I know how much you pew polishers of this cult of demonic pedophiles love defending your cult. But hey, we can far prove that your cult is still protecting it’s pedophiles, this time, sending them down to South American countries, so they can continue to prey on more children.

      Or how there are over 9,000 confirmed pedophile priests in Italy.

      Or over 2,000 in France.

      All of them still protected by your cult.

      And how about Pope Frankie? Your new Head Pedophile Pimp? Who elevated the Pedophile Pimp Pope John Paul II to Sainthood and now you all got a Patron Saint of Pedophiles to pray to.

      Or how about his calling Archbishop Jozef Wesolowski to the Vatican from the Dominican Republic, who was raping kids there, protected him at the Vatican for over two years, allowing him his freedom, while it was then proven that not only did Wesolowski continue to rape kids at the Vatican’s pedophile palace across the street from the Vatican, but was found with over 10,000 child porn images and dozens of child porn videos he downloaded while at the Vatican?

      After two years of your Pope Frankie’s lies…about how he was going to prosecute these scum…and the UN and the DR officials calling him out over this he finally said he was going to prosecute Wesolowski, interesting though how Wesolowski was found dead in his room a few days later of an “apparent heart attack” eh?

      Or how about your Popo elevating Juan Barros to Bishop in Chile, despite proof that Barros protected pedophile priests? Oh yeah and that cause a freaking riot and people now want to blow Barros head off so he has to go around with armed body guards.

      Or his refusal, despite his promises, to prosecute one single pedo pimp of your cult?

      I love two of your Saints though who said what should be done to all of these scum.

      St Peter Damian: “Listen, you do-nothing superiors of clerics and priests. Listen, and even though you feel sure of yourselves, tremble at the thought that you are partners in the guilt of others; those, I mean, who wink at the sins of their subjects that need correction and who by ill-considered silence allow them license to sin. Listen, I say, and be shrewd enough to understand that all of you alike are deserving of death, that is, not only those who do such things, but also they who approve those who practice them.” Letter 31, the Book of Gomorrah (Liber Gomorrhianus), containing the most extensive treatment and condemnation by any Church Father of clerical pederasty

      St Pope Pius V: “Therefore, wishing to pursue with greater rigor than we have exerted since the beginning of our pontificate, we establish that any priest or member of the clergy, either secular or regular, who commits such an execrable crime, by force of the present law be deprived of every clerical privilege, of every post, dignity and ecclesiastical benefit, and having been degraded by an ecclesiastical judge, let him be immediately delivered to the secular authority to be put to death, as mandated by law as the fitting punishment for laymen who have sunk into this abyss.”Constitutionn Horrendum illud scelus, August 30, 1568

      Yes, I agree, that these scum are all deserving of death.

    • And you have personal knowledge of what happened with Luther back then? I think not so you shouldn’t throw stones or pass judgement

    • Your brainwashed too, and the reason Luther left is he did not like that the Catholic Church was playing “GOD!!!” Absolution, making people Saints, forgiving murder via confession etc. etc. “That’s why he left.”

    • The church got so desperate that after the highest price for Absolution started to go down; the Catholic Church went so far as to sale them for a penny

    • We all know that being burned is no doubt the most painful experience anyone could endure. Think of it this way. Could you hold your child's hand over a burning flame? Just because he is screaming in agony you see no reason to give him any relief because he's done something very bad!!! So, you continue with your punishment, but hypothetically the child cannot die, so you continue to punish him. Tell me……what loving God would ever think of such a thing. The everlasting torture burning forever with no relief by a loving "god" is just not reasonable, and all I know is the God I worship has never had this come into his heart. What does fire do? A very simple answer: it burns to ashes, so the lake of fire means everlasting destruction, not everlasting torture! How could anyone love such a god? If your answer is yes you could, then you need mental help. The wages of sin is death…..in my mind that's enough. Realize that Revelations was symbolic, and use reasoning people!!!

      “For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, . . . for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.”—Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10, Revised Standard Version.

      The Hebrew word Sheol, which referred to the “abode of the dead,” is translated “hell” in some versions of the Bible. What does this passage reveal about the condition of the dead? Do they suffer in Sheol in order to atone for their errors? No, for they “know nothing.” That is why the patriarch Job, when suffering terribly because of a severe illness, begged God: “Protect me in hell [Hebrew, Sheol].” (Job 14:13; Douay-Rheims Version) What meaning would his request have had if Sheol was a place of eternal torment? Hell, in the Biblical sense, is simply the common grave of mankind, where all activity has ceased.

      Is not this definition of hell more logical and in harmony with Scripture? What crime, however horrible, could cause a God of love to torture a person endlessly?

    • ONE THING I HATE ABOUT SOME PROTESTANTS IS THEY GO AROUND TELLING OTHERS. " OH YOUR CATHOLIC, I'M CHRISTIAN OR YOUR ORTHODOX AND I'M CHRISTIAN. HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!! ???????? WE ARE ALL CHRISTIAN AND ORTHODOX AND CATHOLICS WERE THERE WAY BEFORE YOUR ESTABLISHED THOUSANDS OF CUT UP SECTS.

      ORTHODOX AND CATHOLIC WERE SEPARATED BY THE POPE'S NEED TO CHANGE THE NICENE CREED AND THE FACT THAT NOT ONLY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WANTED TO CHANGE, BUT THE POPE WANTED TO BE LEADER AND SOVEREIGN OF THE WHOLE WORLD LIKE HE WAS A GOD AND WE THE EASTERN ORTHODOX ANTIOCH SAID NO!!!!!!!!!! WE WILL TAKE THE FAITH AS IT WAS GIVEN TO US THE APOSTLES AND NO CHANGES. NO ONE HAS POWER. THE LEADER OF OUR CHURCH IS NOT THE PATRIARCH, ITS JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF!!!!!!!! WE ONLY RESPECT OUR RELIGIOUS CLERGY, WE DON'T LOOK AT THEM AS IF THEY HAVE SOME FORM OF POWER OVER US. WE BELIEVE IN SAINTS WHO WERE PEOPLE WHO GAVE THEIR LIFE TO CHRIST AND SOME EITHER MARTYRED OR GAINED SAINTHOOD BY THEIR WORKS AND FAITH WHO ARE YOU TO CHANGE THE FAITH AND TWIST THE BIBLE UP. SWALLOW IT!!!!!!!! EVERYONE IS A HERETIC WHO DON'T FOLLOW GOD THE TRUE WAY!!!!!!!! THERE IS A HEAVEN AND A HELL, AND NO IFS OR BUT'S ABOUT IT!!!!!! THE CLERGY WHO SUDDENLY LIE WILL LAND UP IN WORSE HELL FIRE THAN THE AVERAGE SINNER, KNOWING THE FEAR OF GOD IS A GOOD FEAR, IT PUTS US IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND TEACHES US TO PRAY AND TALK TO GOD AND CONTINOUSLY HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM. PLEASE STOP PLAYING WITH GOD!!!!!!! BECAUSE HE IS NOT PLAYING WITH YOU!!!!!!!

    • Luther didn't leave RC to establish his own church. He left because of the atrocities and the non-biblical teachings that he saw in RC. Just the fact that you're all jacked-up on "the blessed mother" tells me you're another brainwashed uber catholic without a brain. Read the bible and educate yourself about the saving grace of Jesus and ONLY Jesus.

    • It is so hard to get through to the indoctrinated. No matter how many times the world is told all religions are manmade and that it is a money-making control system. Still they believe with their fear.

    • All christians belong to the CULT of Yeshua and all of it is based on a belief system. No one's ever proved anything.

    • An evil man he works for Satan and is his servant fact! I died and went to hell as a suicide it does exist as does the bottomless Abyss I saw them all but came back the bible speaks of hell not the invention of a man

    • In all his MANY years of believing this way he never tried to form his own church. He’s been dead for several years now so I guess your theory is incorrect. His many books have been widely read.

  2. This man is a very smart man. I can agree with a lot of what he says despite not being a man of faith. The concept of living in constant fear of eternal punishment has always turned me off, and it should turn everyone off.

      • Absolutely, and it's no wonder there are so many people who are agnostic or atheist!!! Who could possibly love a God who would be able to do such a heinous act as this?!! The first established "Church" that broke away from the early Christians used this tactic, and many other things from pagan beliefs to lure them in. We can look at the background of holidays, and easily discern that most all of them have pagan roots intertwined with Christianity!

        • You're absolutely right!!! If you are a mother or father who loves their child, would the thought of holding their hands over a burning fire for a while, much less forever as punishment make you feel LOVING?? I believe most of us know that Revelations was mostly symbolic. Re. 20, 13-14 reads: And the sea gave up those dead in it, and they were judged according to their deeds. 14, And death and Hades were hurled into the lake of fire, and this means the second death, the lake of fire. ***If you use discernment, you know what fire would do to a human…….it symbolizes destruction and death.**** The wages of sin is death, not everlasting hell fire!!!

        • Jehovah's witnesses know there is no hell and that God would not do that to people nor do witnesses celebrate pagan holidays.

    • I agree! We are humans and that's a great thing but we'll have a certain perceptions on who is good… And he is real he is just say we are not able to even rap our heads around god he is more then anything we can imagine and he sit here and think of this man in "human form" that's watching us and taken note on whose been naughty and nice. Like come on other things and creatures like let's grow up people and be superior human beings and not ignorant people who have been following the next blind guy..

    • In the first place the bible does not say there is an ETERNAL burning hell or eternal punishment.. He is right that the church, starting with the Roman Catholic Church, has made that up to control the people, but all it does is make people hate God. The bible uses the word hell and eternal hell but that hell is a pit a place where things are burn up (eternally) like in a fire pit one would use to burn trash or wood etc.. In reality what is eternal is the death of the person not eternal torment or eternal punishment. ….whosoever believes in Him would not PERISH but have ETERNAL life…John 3:16…The oposite of eternal life is eternal death, to perish, not to burn in hell forever that would be eternal life!
      And second ..As far as being born again he is misleading, actually he is misleading on many things. Being born again is a mindset a change of thinking. You are a new creature where your eyes were closed to spiritual thing and now they are open. A new understanding of God and the real reason to be a follower. Not a no fear of life or death. Knowing !

    • If Lord Jesus is your Lord and Saviour you don't live in "constant fear of eternal punishment". He took our place and gave us his life. Hard to understand if you don't know Him but there is no fear for those who have accepted the Lord Jesus's sacrifices and have faith in HIM.

    • That turns me off as well because if it is "all about me " and just want your bacon saved, you have missed the boat somewhat. If you are unsaved, you will have no fear as you do not believe in hell, not true? Either that, or you believe there is a hell yet you prefer to live as you please and reject God (make a positive choice for hell), then you will live in constant fear, agreed. Yet if you are saved, you have no fear of hell. So it is a false argument it seems. God is not a "solution for hell" , He is a blessed Saviour who offers you eternal " life". Being a Christian is not about you, it is about Jesus and His death on the cross for you, an undeserving beneficiary of his grace.

  3. Perry. You couldn’t be more wrong on several counts. 1. This guy is a retired Bishop. 2. He’s not Roman Catholic and never was. 3. He is episcopalian. 4. He had every opportunity to start a rival episcopal church or join an existing one to lead it and didn’t. 5. He’s way too old to go back into active ministry. 6. Apparitions are psychological phenomenon that match exactly the faith tradition of the apparition beholder and are not real. 7. The Roman church (just like all the others) manufactures public acceptance of these made up apparitions in order to gain legitimacy and hold or gain followers. 8. Luther and anyone else who leaves churches end up pretty happy (unless they start another one).

    • Youre obviously one of the churches mental slaves. what does age have to do with ministry? All of you that feel u know and understand God by meeting up to human standards are the biggest clowns ever. The liars that are misleading u are the hell bound ones. I dont know how and why common sense cannot diffrenciate uprightness from so called grace that makes u christians “SIN” believing that when u get back to report urselves to ur priest kamar wont hit u. lmao

    • You sound like the exact type of person he is talking about the ones thst use all these manmade ideals to pump up the money grubbing churches that are no better than the american banking system what a joke sorry you cant convince me hes wrong

    • The priest is a bishop of the Anglican Church, or also known as The Church of England. The Episcopal Church in the United States is part of the world-wide Anglican Communium, of which the Church of England is also a member.

      The whole idea of him starting a "rival episcopalian church" is ridiculous.

      A significant number of priests in the Anglican Communium hold exactly the same views. It is nothing unusual.

      • While driving across the Ohio River in an attempt to get to Falmouth, KY in December, 1993, I had a vision in the sky while on S-27. It lasted about 4 minutes. I wrote about it in a class I was taking at Mount St. Joseph College. It impacted my life dramatically. You cannot tell me it was a psychological phenomenon because my friend, who was at The Farm in Falmouth where Our Lady was appearing to some woman, had a man standing next to her and reported seeing exactly the same thing I saw while driving down the road. She, on the other hand, saw nothing. Till this day, I do not know nor have ever met or talked to the other man.

        Spiritual things do happen. They cannot be explained.

        The Church does not manufacture these stories. They are real.

    • How can you question the thoroughness of Church, especially the Catholic Church, investigations. You only have to look at how thoroughly they have investigated child molestation by the clergy………….. oh, wait a minute…… :(

  4. If you study the Bible really well, you’ll see, it’s written, HELL IS REAL. It is a lake of fire. I did not write it there, I am just reading it. We may have other reasons in mind to believe that hell is not real, and you may want us to understand all of those. As for me, I don’t need to understand any of those. I can read. And so can you. Try reading, so you’ll know.

    • Yea dipsh*t? If you can read then do some research. The bible was written by MEN. Not God. The ignorance of some of you is overwhelming.

    • If you study the holy books of Rowlings, you’ll see–it’s written–HOGWARTS IS REAL. It is a school for wizards. I did not write it, I just read it. You may have reasons to believe it is not real, but I believe in the revealed word of Rowlings. I don’t need facts or proof–it is written! I can read and so can you. Try reading, then you’ll know Hogwarts is real!

    • The Bible says a number of things that are factually untrue or impossible. It is creative writing. Heaven and he'll do exist, but they are in our lifetimes. I promise you are not going to be cast down below the earth's crust into a lake of fire and fry. Conversley, you will not float up into the clouds, through the atmosphere and onward to heaven. The notion of heaven and he'll exist solely to keep people in line. You can believe in God and reject these notions. Why are so many people who read, quote and disseminate the bible so literally are anxious to put down another's interpretation, experience and choice to follow their own path and decide what works for them. I believe in God, but I don't need the threat of eternal damn at ion in a lake of fire to be a decent human being.

      • Yes hell is a life condition whenever you experiance tradgedy in your life or deep sorrow that’s hell not some far off place underneath the ground believe me we have all experianced it ,you don’t get punished because of what you believe think about it you have freedom of choice it doesn’ t make sense to punish you for it. That’s like giving you a chioce and beating up if you don’ t make the right chioce I want you too. If you do that that is a control issue. Research question what we have been taught is the best way to go that way you will see the real truth.

        • Um, no. Hell is not tragedy or life events – – hell is the torment of not trusting that life and its events are transitory. Hell is doing evil, then knowing you will go into death. Hell is living a life of greed, and approaching the reckoning. That's hell.

      • It occurs to me that the bible has been translated many times and like the King James bible, not always from the original languages. Many of the translations and copying have been done by the church. What better opportunity to include any ideas you wish in order to subjugate the the population. Its politics. Also the several counsels convened to decide just what should and should not be included in the final book leads me to believe it is the work of men only and not to be trusted. The devil and hell were brought into the old testament to control the people. Again, politics. As to what is true, or not, in that particular book I have no valid qualifications to answer.

      • The bible says he'll is the grave. It also as he sow, so shall ye reap. That's not karma but the truth. There's no such thing as luck, but the grace ad favor of God. The devil and God are real, but I kinda agree with the translation issues and the control of ppl thing. The Romans started it, then catholics etc…..they are cults my friends and don't encourage free thinking, a personal relationship with God or anything without express permission of some man of authority in the said church. Now, all of these things give some ppl the wrong idea about what God can do and what his plan is for our lives! He never said life would be easy or fair, but when you give him the control over your life and put him first, your whole perspective changes and tour priorities do as well. With our Lord as our rock solid foundation, everything that is truly essential he provides. It may not be how or what you prayed for, because it may not be what is truly important for your spiritual growth. You can see God in someone by how they treat strangers, the poor, hungry, homeless and especially their neighbor. They don't boast or covet material items or judge you either. They are kind, compassionate, loving people with a servant's heart. They try to treat people like Jesus did and be positive to one another. They focus on their blessings and are humble and very grateful for the little things. That which money cannot buy is what makes them rich, not what's in their bank account or what material possessions they've aquired. You don't even have to ask and they don't have to tell you, it's obious what has filled them with such peace and purpose. It's not about this existence but about the hereafter. We can still enjoy this life with the peace and keeping our eye on what's most important : God's promises! They are real and I'm not trying to convince or change anyone. I do pray for these things I've mentioned to all those either atheists and fake Christians a like. Man devices us based on our religious differences, nationality and what makes us different from others. God made us all and his plan was for us to be unique. So that we could see past our differences and love/accept anyway. Its to teach us lessons of unconditional love and that judgement belongs only to Father God. That position is filled and always will be. Idk how anyone can look at natire, a newborn baby and how it came to be and many other things. …to many to list. May God appear to you that don't believe through some awesome appreciation of his creation. Each person will see the truth at exactly the time that God has planned. I stopped praying for my wants and needs years ago and pray for his will in my life and for all the gifts he promises. Doors open that only he could do so easily, after I long gave up on or accepted as my burden to bear. But I gave all my burdens and worries over to him. He says give me your weary. I will give you rest. He is the answer to every question and yes, it's truly as simple as that! Humans over think and twist things around in their minds until they can't see up from down. Focus on what the truths are and your blessings. Let go of all the rest. All of that is simply a distraction from where our focus should be: on him!

      • Absolutely!!! It is the common grave of mankind. People!!!! Read it for what it says, not what you've been coerced to believe since you were old enough to understand. God is "love." There is nothing more painful than burning, and though I am far from perfect, I would never be able to watch anyone be burned without relief. Death will be done away with because it will be thrown into the lake of fire!!!! The wages we pay for sin is death; not an eternal place of punishment without relief. I would NEVER be able to love a god with a heart such as that.

        • You're just fooling yourself. The God of the bible most definitely is globally associated with eternal torture…you're just CHOOSING to deny that part because your brain for some reason can't swallow that particular lie, but if you believe that our source is male, authoritarian, jealous etc. and that a person NEEDS to believe that accepting Christ as a savior is the only path to spiritual enlightenment then you are still brain-washed and playing a socially-accepted fantasy game. Wake up.

        • If God is love then why have millions upon Millions upon millions of people been murdered in his name that's not love that is a fiery white-hot hate

          • The short answer is simply because people murder people…I'm sure God looks down and says "Why are you murdering each other in (my) name?" We live in a messed up world.

    • The Bible is CORRUPT! Remember this as you read it. Many things were made up by man to continue to enslave man. try mt Jesus celebrateeve.com

    • Yeah you can read, interesting part is God can't write, according to the Good Book others wrote what God showed them. Dr. Susse wrote too and good luck finding a white guy in that part of the world 2000 years ago not to mention ones name Matt, Mark or John.

    • Hell is real! It is the common grave.
      Jesus was actually in hell. Read Acts 2:3.
      What happens when someone dies?
      Read Psalm 146:4
      Ecclesiastes 9:5,10
      John 11:11,13, 14

      People do not go to heaven when they die either.
      Did Jesus go up to heaven when he resurrected people in the Bible? No, he resurrected them from right here on earth, to right here on earth. If people were meant to live in heaven then why didn't he leave them be? God's original purpose for the earth was that mankind live FOREVER upon it and take care of it and it's animals but when Adam and Eve sinned that brought about death! Romans 5:12. Romans 6:23.

      • I can write a book say it's divinely-inspired in which it tells you when you die if you're good you'll get a million puppies but if you die and you were bad you'll get one ugly mean cat now that you read it does that make it true

      • Jesus said to one of the thieves on the cross, today you will be with me in paradise. To be absent from
        the body is to be present with the Lord. There is no other name given unto men in which we are to be saved, the name of Jesus.

    • I've read, and this is what the scriptures say……….death and hell will be thrown into the lake of fire!! What happens when something tangible is thrown into fire? So, what this means is exactly what it states. Death will be no more in God's government. Tell me this…..anyone?!!! Would you throw your son or daughter into fire to suffer forever without relief? It's very simple, unless you're mentally ill. Therefore why would God allow humans, whom he was the maker of to suffer and watch the agony of these people from now to infinity? He wouldn't. So there you are………now, read it for what it really says; not what you have been indoctrinated to believe.

    • I always find it interesting when topics such as this arises and someone goes back to the Bible to "prove" that hell, Jesus, or any other Biblical person or events are real. I just want to point out that the Bible is only ONE of many books supposedly given to prophets by a Deity, and there are writings that in fact predate the origins of the Bible. Pieces of writings that are older than the Bible tell eerily similar stories with noticble differences. So for the Bible to be one's soul resource as a means to justify what one has been taught and has chosen to embrace as truth, is a flawed way of approaching a subject like this.

      • The Sumerians have the oldest writings on the planet…first written words (cuneiform) They have a flood myth and creation myth that predate the bible by thousands of years. Guess what? They sound extremely similar to the bibles with some differences, but it was written first. The Bible outright copied these stories and molded them to suit their own agenda

    • Read what? Which VERSION of The Bible? and, who Originally crafted The Bible? Europeans? Asians? Africans? Better research it before declaring that HELL exists because The Bible said so!

    • Who says that the bible is 100% truthful, people will say anything if it gets others to believe the same thing. I believe that someone/something created the universe but I certainly couldn't give them a name and testify to there beliefs and demands!! The main message is basically "be nice to each other and don't steal" !

    • If you really study the Bible you would know that "the lake of fire" is only mentioned in the books of Daniel and Revelations respectively.
      Both books have to do with dreams and visions, very hard to interpret. Churches argue among themselves over the meaning of those books.
      Hell fire doctrine is accepted and rejected depending on what church you go to, either camp will claim they have the "truth."
      The idea that a God of Love is going to employ Satan his arch enemy to torture people indefinitely for the sins they committed in their few years of life down here… That is far fetched indeed!
      Be careful what you decide to believe as absolute truth.

    • Just A peice of Advise we are living in HELL RIGHT NOW We are burning in fire CANT YOU SEE THE WARS THE KILLINGS THE AGONY THE EARTH QUAKE THE TORNADOS HURRICANES PARENTS KILLING THE OWN CHILDREN HUSBAND'S KILLING THERE WIVES THEN THEMSELVES.

    • It wasn't a Jewish belief at the time of Jesus. The Hell theology came later. You may want to try reading beliefs Jesus was raised with. Research Olam ha­Ba (Judaism on after-life).

    • If you actually research the history of Christanity in debt, you will find that this priest is correct. By the way, your Bible has been rewritten 26,000 times and is far from it's original form.

    • Lol, the Bible is your evidence for Hell? The Bible is fiction, and it was precisely written by men to help the church control the masses. The Bible is the control itself in the form of stories; it is control in the form of words. That would be the same as saying that a hobbit exists because Tolkien wrote it in LOTR. Grow up.

      • Elizabeth I agree using the Bible for proof that the Bible is real is no different then using the word you're saying in its own definition

    • The whole point he was trying tio make was humans, the churches of every and all religions, do everything in there power to gain complete control. Yes…it says hell is real in the bible. But who wrote the bible. How many different versions are there. Exactly!! Man made again. Control. I can keep going on with facts ands opinions but I've found that it doesn't do much good. Just let people believe what they want to make them happy. I personally believe in an after life. I follow native American traditions and teachings, specifically lakota. Our ancestors say, once a person crosses over and you were a good person, walked your path, and did everything creator made you too do, you are greeted by all your ancestors who love you. They show you the way around spirit world. Which is the world between. It's parallel with ours, just on a different plain. In spirit world, you help people in regular world. But it's your choice. And creator can send you back in human form again if he needs you to complete something else in life. Now, if you were bad in your life and didn't walk the red road. You don't go to hell and damned for all of eternity. No. You go to the spirit world still but you are not greeted by ancestors or anyone else. You can wind up lost on the between plain for a long time!! But eventually, creator will send you back to give another chance. When I say send back and all that stuff. I'm not talking about the person you are. I'm taking about your spirit. The firm were in now is just a vessel for our spirit tio walk our path and accomplish what creator put us here to do and help as many purple along the way.

    • Thats because your conditioned to believe that! You've been told that for so long that you believe it. Look into it for yourself, you''ll see that its a man made teaching.

    • You mean that book written by a man not a god? Listen you yourself, if I write in a book that Dark Elfs live in a great cavern in the middle of the earth, then you read it will you blindly agree to that?

    • I think "lake of fire" is probably the explanation given to something the person didn't understand when they were first "told" this.

      As an example, there are many things described even in Egyptian times that had no name or concept for them and today we would call them something else because we have technology and knowledge.

      For all we know, all the good people will be "raptured" and Yellowstone will blow up erpupting lava all over the Earth hence the lake of fire….

    • OH DEAR! This is SO dreadfully common! Do you realize that bible you are reading is a work transcribed and translated thousands of times by scribes (not Xerox machines) over multi thousands of years and it was changed and "adjusted" and slanted and mis-interpreted and added to so often that it is only a loose guide in our hands as a piece of sentimental literature…from which we SHOULD be extrapolating the positive general message of hope – rather than harsh judgment so many fear or use to intimidate. My father was a minister, a University professor, and a biblical scholar who read and wrote in Aramaic, Greek, Latin, Hebrew and had access to some of the earliest texts. He confided SO many KNOWN facts of issues with the modern bible (Including King James' vastly influences version) over the years of after-dinner discussion with me that I had to keep secret or it would rattle the church members, who had been brainwashed in their early Sunday School years, to the bone! Here's just ONE little shock for you… scholars KNOW for a fact that no writing whatsoever was begun documenting Jesus life until at least 50 years after his murder. Can you quote ANYTHING you heard even ten years ago and be sure you have recalled the exact words? And dont faint – the Virgin Birth was ADDED long after records even began circulating to fit an ancient prediction the the Messiah would be born of a virgin. So – better to live your life in faith, but don't listen to the fear -mongers and those who would try to control you through threats…. of course, you wont accept this. They clearly got into your head before your age of reason. Sad. i will pray for you…

    • I agree with you completely. I follow the teachings in God's Holy Word and have seen too many miracles, not to believe.

    • Why should we believe whoever wrote the bible? Just another human being. I believe and make up my own mind about things but I don't believe in the Bible.

    • The Bible is a collection of chapters assembled by the Catholic church, no more, in order to justify their actions. Of course they represent it as being "from God", so no one would question the motivation for creating it. Mankind has been controlled by those who'd have you believe that not conforming to the message contained within it would lead to eternal damnation (blah blah blah).
      If there Is a God, he's not catholic or protestant, or Jewish or Muslim, he just IS. It's quite doubtful that he would have anytime to lose "inspiring books"… or burning bushes! Lol

    • Correct, and the references to hell by Jesus and others was in the original manuscripts well before there was an "official" RCC.

    • i study the bible….. thee is no evidence that the Lake of fire is "REAL or that HEL IS REAL.. none. it's a book. written by mortals….

    • Hell will be right here on earth, if you refuse the mark of the beast. You won't be able to buy food or even water without the mark, so that in itself would be hell. It will most likely be a microchip.

      • Hell will be right here on earth. You will have to be microchipped in order to buy food or water. That will be your hell. Its called the mark of the beast. Accept it or die of starvation. Will you for for your Lord. ?

    • The bible both old and new testament are not supposed to be taken literally unless you are speaking to the masses. The book is full of allegorical stories as are all the Hebrew scriptures. It all refers back to the hermetic principles and wisdom of the Egyptians. All the major religions are astrological man has followed the path of the stars and planets since ancient times long before any of these religions existed. That knowledge was used to convince people of the controllers wisdom because the people at the top new when season's would change when the day's would get longer and the sun would he reborn after the darkness of the winter month's. It is astonishing that those same religions have power over people today but it is not helped by governments supporting the lies. Just look at the absolute evil thing's that are done in the name of a religious belief system. They are left over medieval stupidity with clearly much too much power in today's world. A true religion of peace and kindness to ourselves and earth that is founded in honesty would be a much better idea today. If we can lift our consciousness we can overcome this ridiculous dogma.

    • Boy after reading some of these posts, I'm really glad that I had left the church years ago. He's right about the church inventing hell, the ancient Greeks believed of the underworld not a hell.

    • But who wrote the bible man did an it a proven FACT that it was written in Hebrew Greek Aramaic an jew an it it a FACT that only 1 out of every 3 words translate into English so the bible that so many believe in a follow can't be what a higher being was said to have spoken cuz think about it your every church tells you how you supposed to live in way or another from there interpretation of the bible an from there what that priest pope or pastor understands an there interpretation so how do you know what is the bible an like that guy said all religions have 1 thing in common…. If you don't live a certain way you are gonna end up in HELL or PURGATORY some form of DAMNATION for not doing or living a certain way an you look at all religions are based on or around that concept belief or idea

  5. This man or Bishop is not a follower of Christ by the way he talk he could also come and tell us Jesus never came to the world. There is no God etc. Well l or anyone who believe in Christ do not need to dispute his claim. He can say whatever he want on the last day we will know if there is Hell and heaven.
    But for me l prefer that fear that will keep me doing the will of God and even if there is no Hell or heaven I have nothing to loss but will be happy l lived a good life. But be careful as there will be WOLF AMONG THE SHEEPS

    • “…on the last day we will know if there is hell and heaven.”

      So, currently, you do not have a clue and base a lifestyle on cluelessness.

    • so basically you are a christian "just in case".

      im the farthest thing from a religious person, yet when i die i will die with the satisfaction that i lived a great life. I helped people when i could. I was honest. I stood up for things when i felt like i needed to. you dont have to have religion for that. And if "god" wants to have me burn in some stupid lake of fire for eternity, based solely on the fact that i didnt kiss his ass my whole life (because he would never prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that hes real) then id rather burn than suck up to some childish diety that punishes people because he didnt get his way.

    • Why fear? Why not follow what you perceive as good and moral and follow that regardless of any higher or lower being?

    • you cannot burn in an eternal hell……Will it be your body burning in hell? any material will last only so long in "a lake of fire" and will be completely decimated in a matter of time and will cease to exist. Will your "soul" burn in hell? Soul is spirit and not a substance and as such is not subject to "burning" or freezing.

    • Right, that works in the opposite as well. My uncle used to say just because you don't believe in a thing doesn't mean it's not real, just ask the king of Siam about snow. I used to reply: That works in the opposite. Just because you believe in something doesn't make it real. Just ask the children of the world about Santa.

    • Those things that are true whether or not one "believes" are called facts and have data, research, publishing and peer review. I feel believe is the wrong word. I don't believe in the theory of gravity, I just accept it. I don't believe in the theory of evolution I just accept it, once again based on the science I've seen. I don't believe Firefly was the best show ever. I know it.

    • Yes, this is why I don't bother to argue on theological concepts that some may prove, some may disprove – because no matter what I BELIEVE or THINK, what is IS, period. And what is not, I cannot create it with my thought, despite what new agey types may say, lol.

  6. God is love. Religion turns me off, but I know God, I know Jesus, and I am a miracle. I have led a crazy, full life yet I am still here surrounded by love. There may exist the fact that hell does not exist. There is a lost Gospel that talks about in the end Jesus takes the keys to hell and releases all souls. I like much about Native American myth and I do feel that everything is a part of a whole. God is a great mathematician! Perfection surrounds us, yet men continually test the limits of nature. Believe the fact that there is a dark side of energy that can take it’s toll on human spirit. Buddha said on his death bed to “find your own path.” He never claimed to be a deity. Jesus is the only one who died for original sin and was resurrected. If you really know yourself, know your spirit, this isn’t a hard concept to understand or believe.

    • Well written nonsense. And the nerve to say myth about the Native Americans beliefs and not recognizing that Jesus is just as big of a myth. Try living in the real world and leave the spirits alone? Read some science abd educate yourself and your families. God was not a matematician. The guys who invented god did not know maths. Mathematics were invented to quantify the world, it is a way to describe nature. God fails at math. Do not make the same mistake.

    • Excellent! For me, Christ Consciousness is the Spirit of God. Jesus also taught that God was Spirit. I believe when Christ Consciousness came to dwell in Jesus, man became God. Christ said he is the way, the truth, and the life. Christ is God. God is Love. 1 John 4:8 ~ Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
      LOVE is always the way, the truth and the life.

      I believe the Spirit of God can be found in all religion as the fundamental teachings for all is to Love. I believe man changed "religion" to divide and control.

      Religion believes there is a God. Spirituality Knows God.

    • I would have to say that thus far your comment is the best one yet. Its good to know that there are people out there with likeness of mind and thought. But the lost gospel that you speak of – Jesus did take the keys to hell ; He took the keys to the grave for the 3 days He was there – which is exactly what that word means. He even stated it in His last words to the thief hanging next to Him. Today – you shall be with me in paradise (Abraham's bosom) . Good post!

    • true we all have our own path if you take all religion it's self out of these posts,the ones with an open mind will come to realize in the end we all go to the same place among the same beings. That's my opinion.

    • We all know that being burned is no doubt the most painful experience anyone could endure. Think of it this way. Could you hold your child's hand over a burning flame? Just because he is screaming in agony you see no reason to give him any relief because he's done something very bad!!! So, you continue with your punishment, but hypothetically the child cannot die, so you continue to punish him. Tell me……what loving God would ever think of such a thing. The everlasting torture burning forever with no relief by a loving "god" is just not reasonable, and all I know is the God I worship has never had this come into his heart. What does fire do? A very simple answer: it burns to ashes, so the lake of fire means everlasting destruction, not everlasting torture! How could anyone love such a god? If your answer is yes you could, then you need mental help. The wages of sin is death…..in my mind that's enough. Realize that Revelations was symbolic, and use reasoning people!!!

  7. That is why there’s so much inconsistencies in other religions except Islam. ….and guess what?….Islam’s thoroughness as a ‘way of life’ for humanity is what is the achilles heel for the powers that be and that is why there is so much demonisation of it…..study Islam and the teachings of its final messenger and life’s meaning will become apparent! For a christian bishop/priest to say hell is a man made fear factor for control is a contradiction of what divine gospel……its a bit like saying I have two mothers!!!

    • I too once believed there was no hell, even as a "Christian". It was Islam that showed me the truth, opened my eyes, and opened my heart. Alhamdulillah. Taking time to investigate the Quran on my own a few years ago was the best choice of my life.

    • Islam….. you mean the religion where your Messiah said believe what I tell you to or I will put you to my sword and my bow

    • Jesus said "I am the way, and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except thru me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well." Satan is a deceiver, the father of lies and he will lead you where you will choose to follow if you wish. God created each of us in His own image, but, He also gave each of us the ability to have freedom of choosing how we live and who we serve. There are eternal consequences that come with the choices we make. Just like driving a motorized vehicle, there are consequences with the decisions we make. For example a healthy fear of getting a ticket helps us drive the speed limit. This helps prevent some accidents, we don't get too many points on our driving record and lose our license and our insurance rates don't sky rocket because of the points/tickets, etc.
      Before you think the Bible is just another book written by man or it is a book of Do's and Don'ts, please study prophesy's of Jesus Christ and there fulfillment. These prophesy's were written 400 plus years to over 2,000 years before Jesus physically walked on this earth. For 3, 6 or even 8 these prophesies to be fulfilled is incredible odds that Vegas could never think to cover, but to realize there are hundreds of these prophesy's in the Bible is astounding!
      A burden I carry is that everyone will bow their knee to Jesus Christ and everyone will confess Him as Lord and King! The sad part is that many will do this and be told "I never knew you, depart from Me!" The terror that will fill one's being and heart at the thought that their life is over and their decision to not accept the work God did for them thru the death, burial and resurrection of His own Son, Jesus Christ will send them to hell forever! People lose hope when threatened to go to jail for a night on a DUI charge and they are terrified! What about eternal separation from a Holy God because He can't allow sinners into His heaven. Someone's blood has to pay for your sins- is it the Holy blood of Jesus Christ you trust, or will your own blood pay for your sins? My name is Michael and my cell is 541-230-8232 if you ever want to talk about a relationship with Jesus Christ.

      • Islam is nothing but teaching of war against non believers and punishment for any who would leave the religion.
        It is abusive, approves of Pedophilia and rape and beating of wives, gives women no rights, gives man ultimate power and causes harm wherever it is.
        You follow a war lord who killed, pillaged, raped, took slaves and married a little child and you claim it is the religion to follow. Muhammad was nothing but a criminal with a desire to gain riches and abused people and killed to achieve his goal

    • Are you serious? A religion that was founded by a murdering child mollester that denies Christ as Son of God is where you found TRUTH???? You people are a sex death cult!! Nothing more!!!

    • Muhammad married a 9 year old girl at the age of 44 and said that 1/3 of women will be in hell because they are ungrateful busybodies. Your Muhammad was a false prophet. The Lord Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

    • Islam is no different to all the others it is written in the same way. You can substitute the maj0rity of all the major religious doctrines between themselves. Try reading more books especially ones written before 1900 the answers are there. They exist purely due to the power of persuasion and social law. They are all insults to our intellectual values and thinking. There are moral values and codes there that are valuable but the deity side is all fabricated. The sun that earth orbits is and always will be our eternal saviour. How in a sound mind could these books be referring to anything else. Life is energy and the sun gives off energy and the sun gives us life it is not rocket science. The moon and all the other planets are in there too. They all affect us in different ways and the ancients knew about them many thousands 0f years ago and studied their paths and assigned them names and saw groups of stars and gave them names too. All of these are recorded in the scriptures of the major religions but in allegorical form.

    • You do not "believe" that two apples and two apples equal four apples. That is not a matter of belief, it is fact. Faith is not proved, or another way to say that is that faith involves belief and not knowledge. If the existence of God were a proven fact, there would be NO RELIGION. There is virtue in faith and/or belief but not in accepting facts for what they are. Don't look for proof for faith.

  8. ◄ The Simplicity of Life # 122

    RELIGION

    There is no god!

    All religion, its gods and scriptures are man-made concepts to keep the masses in line. Control is achieved by keeping people rooted in fear, instructing them through the written word, therein subverting freedom of thought, and depriving them of their human rights in the freedom of choice.

    People were given brains to think for themselves, and religion has created sheople forbidding them to do so.

    If we weren’t supposed to use our own brains to think, we would all be connected through wires living in the Matrix. And religion has created these invisible strands of fibre optic strands, thereby creating sheople with a hive mind to lead a ‘Borg-like’ existence.

    IT IS THAT SIMPLE!

    [Leahcim]

    • I believe that there is an essential, unbreakable connection that goes deeper than the molecular and atomic levels. It is what holds the universe together. It is sometimes called consciousness, it is sometimes called God, it is sometimes called energy.
      Before humanity had the ability to see under our skin, before science, before the discovery of sub-atomic particles, the questions that we ask today existed. The difference being, we could not answer them without resorting to looking beyond what we saw as the "natural" world, so humanity invented the "super-natural."
      Needing to explain those things that were, at the time, outside our realm of knowledge and even imagination, we also invented gods to help us.
      At some point, there were people who, in their lust for power, realized that they could manipulate others to do what they wanted them to by attributing human characteristics and thoughts to this energy, this connection, this universal consciousness.

    • I'm going to pray that your eyes to be opened to the truth that is Almighty God. That you see evidence of him in every little thing he created and know it with every fiber of your being. I pray he reveal himself to you in such a powerful blast that you ate forever changed and he fill you with such peace and purpose that you cannot deny him. Like the air you breathe but cannot see…..its real and needed to live. Well so is God! He is the way and the life and the answer. He is not a figment of the imagination or dreamt up to give us a place to fir into. He is the shepherd and we are the lambs. Don't let the wolves in sheep's clothing set a bad example of what God is. God loves you right where u are at this exact moment and I don't judge you for how and why you feel the way you do, but I pray that the hy spirit come into you and fill you to overflowing. To make his presence known and you recognize it, without an ounce of doubt! I ask all these things of God, through the son, Jesus Christ, Amen!

    • Actually it's not that simple – only to a simple mind is it that simple. Quantum mechanics and quantum physics in general blow the door open for the possibility that God could exist. Get with current scientific standards and stop thinking with a 18th century agenda.

      • I once said this in a discussion on a social media post. And I also said that we cannot prove nor disprove the existence of God, so logic is out of the question given our scientific progress over the years. Things that defied logic 300 years ago, a phonecall for an example, make sense today, and religious occurrences that defy logic today might make sense tomorrow.

    • I agree. The bible is a mass of contradictions and a god that orders his people to commit genocide and infanticide. Even the virgin birth and death and resurrection of Jesus is a repeat of several ancient myths that pre-dated his alleged existence. Religion is nothing but a thought exercise created by super control freaks. It's the biggest mindf**k in the history of our species.

    • Trhoin : " There is no god! … All religion, its gods and scriptures are man-made concepts to keep the masses in line ". My perception of God is …. "Total Absolute Goodness ". What the Church or anyone one else believes is no business of mine. When you do good you feel good, yes? When you don't do good ( or do something that is not good ) just how do you feel? Doing things that are good for people and makes them feel better is Goodness …. is God. Now enough of this questioning the existence of God, Heaven or Hell. Just go with your feelings. Yes, the church has created the idea of Hell and Heaven but not for the reasons people think. It just wants people to think GOOD.

    • So what does the creators of the myth stand to benefit from making a person like myself a believer of the myth? And in what ways can we prove that Religion is a myth, in which we cannot prove that you are just speculating?

  9. God does excist, angels excist, demons excist and aliens excist.
    We are not alone, we live with other intelligent spieces.
    Purgatory excists, and in this place you can earn your way to heaven.
    Our lady took me to it and showed me everything.
    I have proof, I have photographic evidence of demons, and aliens.

    Everywhere I read that no one believes in God anymore, you all want proof but it comes faith.
    I will get you all proof I promise

    • Heaven cannot be earned….this is why God put the seed of his only begotten son in Mary's womb. Jesus came, lived, died and was resurrected to pay for our sins….he overpaid our sins and this is the only way to God, through the son, Jesus Christ, the one and only savior. God made a new covenant with man and through the gift of Jesus we have a chance for salvation. Jesus makes this possible! Jesus now sits at God's right hand in Heaven and will come back . Our day of judgement isn't far off. God offers us another form of existence and made such a huge universe so we could all have a place in eternity. What a day that will be….when we are changed. We won't feel sorrow or pain, hunger or hate. We will finally get the answers, the missing pieces to the puzzle . All the old human issues are gone and don't matter. Thank you God for loving us so that you sent us our salvation, Jesus! What a gift from such a loving, merciful God. What a sacrifice to make for us to have a chance at being saved. That's true love!

      • "Heaven cannot be earned" then you go on to say that Jesus paid for our sins, He overpaid, giving us a chance for salvation…

        And comments like that is why I refuse to call myself a christian anymore. I believe in God, but not in the bible or in christians who contradict themselves and call it "fact," which a lot of them seem to do. A lot of it is called fact just because it's written in the bible.. A book which can very easily be viewed as a fairy tale, used as a scare tactic, and a tool for control.

        Besides, why would we need a CHANCE for salvation if Jesus ALREADY died for our sins? Are you saying He died in vain, then?

      • Don't you find it a bit convenient that the so called 'payment' for our so called sins was the exact same payment anyone else judged guilty of a crime paid in those times? Everyone wants to act like being put on a cross was some special kind of torment specifically required to be undergone by a savior, when in fact it was quite a common way of punishing someone in those days.

    • I am a strong Christian – but even I would like you to show me proof. So prove everything that you have just suggested to me unequivocally , and that it's not just your opinions, and then I will believe you.

    • "Faith" means you want something to be real so you accept it without critical thought. It's a childish concept. Like faith in Santa Claus. You want a sky daddy. Nothing to say there is interaction but the feeling you self-generate. You wish it to be, so there it be. Faith. It's for the delusional and stupid–which is most of mankind.

      • If you don't believe in God then don't. No one is forcing you and no body gave you the right to talk sh-t about what other people believe, if you don't like other people believing in God then you just have to get over it because you are not them.
        Everyone believe in something and there is a lot of mystics in the world that no one know the answer to, you don't know what come after death so you have no right to down other believe. I believe in God even if he is real or not so i won't allow you to talk sh-t about what i believe so if he isn't then my bad and if you want talk about faith or God……i highly recommend you to keep it to yourself because no one asked you.

        • You are mistaken. Every person has the right to express their viewpoint as they wish, including sh-t talk. While I do agree that belittling others for their beliefs in imaginary figures is childish at best, he still has the right to do so.

          There are a few mysteries left on this world but not many.

          Since this website relates to Hell, God and faith, what else would he talk about here? Who made you the guardian of the comment section? You have not the authority to allow or disallow anyone from stating their viewpoint.

          As for what comes after death, we all know the answer but refuse to admit it. The bible did have one thing right…ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

  10. I believe some power beyond us started this—–no one that I know ever came back and said there is life on the other side. weather they can't only time will tell when we all go to the abyss
    .

    • Yep,the Big Bang started this. If your power is an entity,who started that? Next ,why? Why this vast universe for us? Even it there is other life ,why this vast universe? Lack of comprehention does not equal a creator.

      • How fo you know the big bang started it ? Were you there? Because someone said so tries to prove it with some scientific proof really?? They could be wrong.

      • How do you know the big bang started it ? Were you there? Because someone said so and tries to prove it with some scientific proof really?? They could be wrong. Science means study so they constantly chsnge so called facts.

    • Many of us are in the abyss now. Religion that is based on fear and control is the abyss. The body of the whale. That is where the serpent is. Any god that requires worshiping, offerings, and sacrifice is a false god.The True God does not require anything from us but love one another. He/she is ALL light and LOVE. The religion god is the serpent.he is the god of knowledge of good and evil.

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